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Aeyde: An important question: why architecture?
Judith Haase: I developed an interest in architecture when I saw photos of the Gropius-Zimmer at the Bauhaus-University Weimar. I was 16 years old and decided then to study architecture. The furniture had a spatial approach and the lighting played an important role. Each element related to the other and was part of the entire space concept that was a defining moment for me and my key experience.
A: Since your time at Universität der Künste Berlin, you have prevailed in collaborative practice. How does creating with others enrich your work?
JH: I always worked for people I found super interesting: William Alsop in London, who was an architect and painter who approached architecture in an artistic way through paintings. I continued with Peter Eisenman in New York, Jean Nouvel in Paris, and for around 10 years, collaborated closely with Robert Wilson on his architectural projects, mainly on his cultural center on Long Island, and stage design assistance for some theater plays as well. He was a theater director, a stage designer, an artist, and was very influential… I met him when I was still studying architecture. I saw a play by him, ‘The Black Rider,’ here in Berlin at the Schillertheater. It was so fantastic, I was thinking: I have to work for him because he's a master with light. The stage was so beautiful and intelligent: it was like a Gesamtkunstwerk (total work of art). The Watermill Center, a cultural center on Long Island, New York, founded by Robert Wilson, is where he started to think and work on his projects, which have been shown all over the world. This is how I met and started my collaboration with Pierre Jorge [Gonzalez]; I worked with him in a workshop for the Watermill rehearsal space.
A: How did you and Pierre Jorge decide to merge your practices and forge your firm in Berlin?
JH: He's [Pierre Jorge] French and a scenographer; I'm German and an architect. With our combined education, we decided to open our studio in Berlin in 1999. Our office is called Gonzalez Haase AAS–AAS stands for Atelier for Architecture and Scenography. We bring both disciplines together. When we arrived in Berlin, we designed galleries and spaces for private art collections. Our first huge project was the Lindenhaus, a gallery complex in Berlin for Claes Nordenhake. We converted the entire warehouse into one building with several galleries inside… We did everything: the lighting, the interior, the exterior. That was the start.
A: Lighting is AAS’s forte, and you work with the concept of “democratic lighting.” Can you tell us about it?
JH: I mean, when we create gallery spaces, it's very important that you have consistent light, which renders true colors: if it’s black, you see it’s black, if it’s blue, you see it’s blue. Or that you can see works of art without unnecessary shadows. And that's why we say “democratic.” Somehow, we created that because there is no space where one element is the main focus. So, we were creating this uniform lighting, which was fantastic for the buildings, as well, because you could see the architecture, the structure of the building, and you could see how everything was built.
A: The filmic approach is built in your modus operandi–Atelier for Architecture and Scenography–and within that, how do you design spaces to facilitate conversations?
JH: If we are working in an existing space, first we clean it up and take all unnecessary layers off. Then we see the space empty–just its character and structure–where we can analyze the light. Where does it come in? What is this space telling us? From there, we start to work on the plan, the program, and the functions we have to integrate. It’s a process of 3D development similar to that of a sculptor and architect, really.
A: Is it important to retain the identity of the buildings on which you work?
JH: Very much. We make the structure of the building totally visible. It's really working with the ceilings and with all components. I love how these construction methods tell the stories of the natural resources that were plentiful at the time, and also the goals of the government and the people building them. Here [Aeyde Haus], for example, it's very much working with the architecture and showing what exists already.
A: How did you translate a digital brand like Aeyde into the gallery-like physical space that is Aeyde Haus?
JH: People need spatial experience to feel the brand, which is why we always work with a special materiality. It never becomes a decorative approach. The colour of the space comes through the chosen materials. Every element and material we use functions architecturally in a space by reflecting light or extending views, or by installing islands in an architectural scale, resolving the circulation, or creating a kind of scenography. We are trying to understand and work with the existing architecture and make it visible. That's why I say we take everything off to see the structure. The idea was to show the volume, so we took out a lot of walls to make the space visible, as it was before. And then by doing this, we created the circulation by, for example, having a huge reception desk inside, which creates a diagonal line. It “circulates” you through the space and opens to reveal the light, almost channeling it. So, that was the remit behind Aeyde Haus. It's really about circulation and lighting, and when we create elements, we design them as part of our architectural language.
A: The scale of Karl-Marx-Allee and Aeyde Haus itself is definitely grand. How do these external proportions factor into the building itself?
JH: Karl-Marx Allee, originally Stalinallee, was representative of East Germany, of the former GDR, so they have this Stalinist architecture, which was prevalent in the Soviet Union. It’s not meant for the individual. It’s built on a superhuman scale with a six-lane road system. The building was for another use during another time. It was “Das Haus des Kindes," designed by Hermann Henselmann in 1953, as a children's department store and residential building, located at the entrance to the Stalinallee. It is a skyscraper with 12 floors. The building was a multi-functional building. You have to go up and see the flats because they are beautifully designed, they have this feeling of elevation—it has this feeling of New York. I used to live in Paris, and there, you know, you have the homogeneity of Haussmannian architecture. But in Berlin, you can really see from every building when it was built, what government it was built under, and what kind of ethos underpinned designated spaces.
A: From its role as a centerpiece of the East German government to the layers of Saxonian Meissen tiles and its subsequent revival as a creative neighborhood, Karl-Marx-Allee is steeped in history. Did you feel this architectural history while working on Aeyde Haus?
JH: Aeyde Haus is located in the first two former warehouse floors, which have a ceiling height of 4.6 meters—fantastic volume for an atelier. To have a creative atelier in this house, in this area, is the biggest luxury. Hermann Henselmann lived and worked in the upper levels of this building with his wife Irene. Irene was an interior architect and she designed the interior of the flats. The flats have very low ceilings in some areas and a little higher ceilings in the more representative rooms. She focused on the details and beautiful materials inside. The plan of the flat is very intelligent, but these spaces have a very different scale compared to the warehouse levels. I mean, to understand how different the warehouse downstairs is from that of the apartments upstairs: it's like another world. Somehow, I think it's visible that a woman did [the interior], because the sensibility brings a level of detail and nuance that complements Henselmann’s broader scale.
A: Looking to the future, AI is dominating industries, though often in data-driven contexts. How do you see it intersecting architectural pursuits? Could you see it enabling creativity rather than replacing the human touch?
JH:
If we consider the historical topics above and the role of AI in architecture and design, it will never replace that spatial awareness—you have to be the brain and use AI as a tool. The experience we [Gonzalez Haase AAS] have had for over 25 years, I think, is a human experience. And how can a program have it? It's your individual experience.
What I explained at the beginning, what related us [Haase, Gonzalez, and Wilson] was lighting. Without light, there is no space. And that's what we do. When I mentioned Robert Wilson, it's not someone impartial who is just directing. No, it's somebody who has a vision, who is a stage designer, artist, costume designer–he's a dancer. It's like different things coming together, and that, I believe, is interesting because you have to know a dancer is thinking about their body. If you're an architect and you don't think about how a body crosses a space, how can you be a good architect? If you're an architect and you're not thinking about light and how people live inside, how can this work?
A: Having worked in Berlin for more than two decades and shaped the face of many cultural and contemporary spaces in the city, how have design styles changed over the past 10 years?
JH: We have always been influenced by the city, especially at the beginning of the new millennium, when Berlin was exciting. Many artists and galleries made their way here. We have been part of this development. There was never money, and we have been inventing, somehow, a style by using and showing very simple, very inexpensive materials. Design is always in flux, just as the world is in flux. With the younger generation, sustainability is a major focus—they are much more conscious. At Gonzalez Haase AAS, our design was always very functional and simple. We used, and are still using, plain materials and no composites. I also feel that, 10 years ago, there was a bit of forced minimalism in this city, where everyone wanted that “Apple Store” aesthetic of everything in white. There's nothing like this in this space [Aeyde Haus]. Now it feels a little bit more textured. People are working with the features already present in a space, and they're allowing for more natural elements to emerge.
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